Abortion writes
Posted By Prophecy in Abortion, Brainstorming/sharing, Deadly sins, Devil's corner, Ethics and MoralsThe subject of abortion is very controversial; and one that would fit right in with all of the other controversial topics on this site.
The topic may hit a particular nerve with some of you and if you are one of those individuals, I would ask that you take a deep breath, or two, and try to forgive me or anyone else commenting on this subject who clearly has not been as personally affected by it.
I would now like to ask those of you who subscribe to an organized religion to air your views twice. Firstly, I would like to hear the opinion formed through the teachings of your faith (and I expect to see this version first due to the level of influence such organized religions hold over their subscribers) and then I would like you to attempt to form your own personal view, separated from your religious beliefs. For the latter, you may have to wait a day or two for your subconscious to kick in, as we are typically not conditioned or encouraged to think for ourselves.
Please don’t be offended as this is not necessarily a stab at organized religions but at our society as a whole.
So here are just a few questions to get the debate started:
Is abortion a right?
Does abortion give us a “get-out-of-jail-free card” (so-to-speak), so that we proceed less cautiously, secure in the knowledge that there is always that option if we “mess-up”.
Who on earth has the right or authority to impose it either way? The government, a particular religion, the parents?
Do you consider it to be an act of murder?
Does the stage of development matter?
What if there was an element of rape involved? What then? Are there any special conditions under which it would be permissible? Supposing that insuch a scenario,the mother was to instead carry-out the term. What would be the consequences to the unwanted child throughout his/her life? What would be the possible consequences of such a decision on society as a whole?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
The rape factor always adds a whole new level of gravity to the situation with emotional consequences that are completely different than when pregnancies occur through consensual sex…
However, I do not believe that rape affects the morality of abortion. One crime does not justify another. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Abortion is wrong.
The difference is that the two situations have different effects, and so should be dealt with and counseled differently and more delicately.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
To Josh,
Your point is well taken however how can or why should the rest of the members of the society have to deal with this unwanted person?
He or she may go through his/her life, in & out of numerous foster homes, possibly experiencing little love & thus respect for much of anything, setting-out to destroy what he/she never had.
July 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Wow what a difficult topic to reconcile. i belong to an organized religion, but contrary to popular opinion, I do think for myself. Far too much I suppse. Jesus told the facts, but did not IMPOSE his religion on anyone…they came willingly. We then need to not impose……Jesus’s gentle loving way with people won them over. The fighting and arguing about this issue will never end. As a religious person we just have to have a heart for those who have aborted, those who do aboortions, and those who have been aborted- in God’s plan they exist now in heaven. Yes it is murder….a life begun is still a life……but Jesus words are clear……let he without sin cast the first stone. We are not the judges. So let us gently love..not judge, yell, accuse or anything else. I will take an unwanted child if one is given instead of aborted, i will love the one that has aborted, and not judge to add to her guilt if she has guilt,I will not create guilt for her as it is not my place, I will not condemn, as it is not my right. Every sin under God is equal, so i will try not to commit an equal sin…like gossipping, lying, cheating etc.
July 16th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
To Al,
Wow, what an amazing comment. You probably know that folks like you are too far & few in between.
You should also know that if all folks belonging to organized religions thought like you, we would all be living in harmony now.
As it is I personally see you as a minority much like other minorities. One that would not even be so safe amongst other fellow religious.
Thank you so much for sharing & letting everyone know that not all religious folks are hardliners.
Look forward to reading your views on some of the other posts.
July 17th, 2009 at 12:40 am
Thanks for your kind comments. There are a quite a few of us, be assured. Highly educated, peace loving Christians, Hidden amongst the right wing nut bars, having our own infallabilities but knowing where to get relief from the insecurities that burden us all. One particular leader I admire is Tony Campolo- he is a left leaning US church leader and professor, and has birthed a movement in the US coined “Red Letter Christians”. Some Bible printings highlight the words of Christ in red, thus the moniker. If you read just the red letters, you get an awe inspiring glimpse of what God wants for us and what a gentle and loving man Jesus was. I believe the words of the Bible is infallable, but much is cultural. Some stuff we just don’t do these days.. .like stone people (or at least we shouldn’t). But these day we stone people with our words and condemnations, and how we deal with abortion is one of those areas. A friend who used to attend our church spoke one day at a lady’s BBQ and confessed that she had aborted a child years previous, and as a result she was shunned by many people and eventually left the church. Is that what God wants? Nah. He wants us to love and forgive and accept. She asked God for forgiveness and was given that awesome gift, even though she knew aborting her baby was murder. Her entire life could have been ruined by all-consuming guilt, as many of the church members tried to impose on her. But the freedom of forgiveness has made her a wonderful loving soul. She is eager to see her baby in Heaven. Wierd eh? That is what complete forgiveness is. She did what she thought best at the time she became pregnant at age 19. Who are we to condemn? Who are we to tell her what she must do? She would not be the wonderful loving compassionate person she is today had she not gone through those dark days and met a forgiving benevolent God.
Ok I should quit rambling..thanks for the forum.
July 17th, 2009 at 5:46 am
To Al,
I meant what I said about you especially the part about not many of you being around. Now I know that you disagree with that & I would love to be proven wrong someday.
I also totally agree with everything you said.
Everything from life not being our to take to life after life & what we sometimes have to go through in order to develop or complete.
I would love to read your views on destiny.
Thanks again for sharing Al.
July 19th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
I just have a question for you, Al…what makes you think that new life, regardless of how the child was conceived, would be unwanted. Perhaps the mother would not be able to deal with all the emotion pertaining to the raising of the child because of her trauma, but that does not mean that there would not be a loving and nurturing home somewhere for that child. It is exactly that, a child. Would the child have to know how he/she was conceived? I don’t think that would help any matter. Look how many success stories there are with adoption and even foster care. Let us not throw every situation into one category and call it all successful or all unsuccessful. The truth is there are all different stories out there and we need to try to make the success stories outweigh the unsuccessful ones.
As far as your comment on whether or not more loving and forgiving Christians, (or even other organized religions) would make for a more harmonious world, let me point out that there will always be people who disagree with or even strongly oppose organized religion and anyone who represents it is resented, regardless of individual positions (views or strengths vs weaknesses we have as humans). Humanity is our first position ahead of what we believe or how smart we are or what colour our skin is or or gender or well educated we are. There is opposition to those who believe in God or even give God credit for little things that happen in our lives. I would even say that there is contempt for those of us who believe and this reason varies from person to person. When interviewed, most of these people who oppose organized religion have these strong feelings because of a hurt that they have experienced. One might argue that the difference between a believer and a non believer, in behaviour, would be the willingness to get past the hurt to reach for a better life as opposed to a mere existence. But the other argument would be that there are unforgiving partakers of organized religion. And this would be accurate. These people would also need to learn to forgive and learn to reach for a better life. As I said earlier, we are first human, then believers. We don’t become faultless once we have chosen a certain path as we ARE still human, however now; a human who is trying!
Thank you so much for this site! God Bless You and all who read this site.
July 20th, 2009 at 5:54 am
To Lin,
Well, you truly covered it all, arguing both sides of the debate leaving little for me to comment on.
I would like to hear Al’s response. Not everyone knows about subscribing to the feed so that they are alerted when someone posts a comment.
Thanks for sharing Lin & thank you for the kind words. The site is meant to bring us all together for a better understanding & tolerance which I believe is far more effective than those “social networking” sites that shall remain nameless.
Please invite your friends & relatives to the site so that we can benefit from their insight as well.
July 31st, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Of course a new life is not always unwanted….by the birth parents, or anyone else. I have a friend who’s 17 year old daughter courageously gave up her newborn after she decided she didn’t have all the necesary tools to raise it. It is a beautiful situation as the new family is welcoming the birth mom and family into the fold and inviting them over, to special events, etc. WOW an ideal situation for all involved for sure!
yep some ppl don’t like organized religions since much damage has been done by people in God’s name. A shame. So let’s just just love people whatever their situation….they don’t have to be in church to warrant our love…..they just have to be one of God’s creations in my eyes!
August 1st, 2009 at 5:45 am
To Al,
I’ve said it before, folks like you are more rare than you believe.
I’m still waiting to hear your views on some of the other topics, destiny in particular.
Thanks for sharing Al.
August 5th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
To Josh:
(If not, that’s okay too. :P)
No offense, but what right do you have to decide, as a male, that women should be denied the right to abort? As a Canadian, citizen, I have been raised to believe in freedom: how can we claim to live in a free society if we don’t offer choices?
I’m 13. I’ve never had an abortion, and hopefully, I never will, but I believe that being human means making choices, even if they’re the wrong ones.
To Prophecy: awesome. I’m glad someone actually has the nerve to bring up this topic. Thank you for that.
I myself recently made a post about abortion on my new blog Idealist-VS-World. If you want, you can check that out.
-Eva
October 19th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Not all seeds sprout, chickens do not lay eggs in winter due to not the right environment to have a child. If we look around us we see all the answers we need. To me we should have a baby when only the time is right, not just when we get pregnant. Have a child when we, mother and father are done progressing themselves to be able to be fully mature, committed and not distract from other curiosities you haven’t explored. Then from what you have progressed pass it down to your child, so every generation gets further progressing then their parents. once you have had a child and your progression is not reached, theirs going to be problems, financial problems, mental problems, parenting problems…and whatever the parents are going through, the child is absorbing and probably will reflected to back into their lives. 2nd: about it being legal or illegal, if God didn’t want us to have abortions then why didn’t God make it impossible for human women to be able to do it. The reason is that God wanted us to have a choice to have an abortion or not, and I am not saying its bad but when we deal with whether its moral or not, in abortions cases we have to talk about SPECIFICS of the situation! And under those specifics we will know the truth.
October 20th, 2009 at 6:11 am
Thanks for sharing Teacher4U.
Do your friends, relatives & coworkers share the same views?
October 21st, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Prophecy your welcome.
And no, none of my friends, family or coworkers (I AM a teacher at a private catholic school, its a good start off job for now lol)none of them share my views. I have wrote a lengthy paper about all the views and have shared it with a couple of friends and my brothers, but none of them seem to understand nor probably never read the whole paper. I found out by doing that(giving a manifesto to somebody) is not the most successful way to enlighten people. A more successful way is to listen to their problems and lay the path for them to take. and if they do not take that path, then at least they knew about it and can backtrack to find the right path.
October 22nd, 2009 at 6:48 am
To Teacher4U,
You will be happy to know that you are not the only teacher who posts here.
This site is a great tool for people of all faiths & occupations, even students.
Some come to read & learn. Some come to voice their opinion because we seem to be the only ones caring about what they have to say and some come to enlighten.
So you see, you are not alone in thinking that no-one cares about your views.
Please feel free to voice your views & opinions here.
You know sometimes a way to get through to someone is through a different channel, like this site. They may not be open to what you have to say for personal reasons perhaps, but they may be more open in this setting.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Personally, I believe that the soul chooses the situation it wants to be born into.
If the pregnancy is ended either through abortion or miscarriage, the soul will find another way to incarnate into a similar situation or into the same family.
A pregnancy that is the result of a rape is a very different situation from a consensual situation. Either way, I think many women feel very conflicting emotions when making that decision. Either way, it’s a personal decision that may have emotional consequences for the woman.
December 12th, 2009 at 6:47 am
Suzanne;
I understand your first point & am not arguing or debating it. I’m just wondering what you think of destiny?
By that I mean, what if that soul was perhaps destined not to enter into that person/family’s life?
What if that whole event was a form of practice/exercise(a lesson?) for all parties(including the soul)?
December 13th, 2009 at 3:32 am
Abortion has been around for thousands of years- there is evidence that women have had knowledge of ways to end an undesirable pregnancy since pre-Biblical times. I wouldn’t want to use them, myself, but the same can be said of modern abortion as well.
Abortion IS a right, as well as a tremendous burden and responsibility, for all women who are blessed with a healthy uterus and sex drive. No woman desires abortion for herself or for any other woman whom she cares for.
There is no such thing as a “get out of jail free card” for a pregnancy, there are only options. Option 1- See the pregnancy to term, providing it’s healthy and viable, transform from person into parent. Option 2- See the pregnancy to term, providing it’s healthy, etc., give baby to hopefully loving home where it grows into regular, productive person. Option 3- Terminate pregnancy as early as possible. Forgive self or live with terrible guilt, learn painful lesson about birth control and sex.
I believe in Karma, different planes of existence, reincarnation, free will. In my view, the uterus is the gateway to human existence as we know it, the female who owns it is it’s keeper- a great burden indeed, being the gatekeeper to existence, and not one to be taken lightly. Every life born onto this plane will affect every other life, human and otherwise, so to just birth whatever takes root, willy-nilly is irresponsible to the child, parents, and all of existence. Unless you believe strictly in destiny, which I do not.
Mother Theresa was once a zygote, as was Lois Pasteur, Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Mozart. They accomplished wonderful things that enlightened our world and advanced human civilization. Jeffrey Dahmer was also once a zygote, and so was Jim Jones and Adolph Hitler. Perhaps there is value in their human lives as well, but certainly it is a more ominous gift. It would seem then, that not every spark of human life shines with the same light.
I feel that I have to point out that Caylee and Casey Anthony too, were both zygotes at one time. Casey, a teen mother, had a child she did not want and was not ready for, but she had a baby because she came from staunchly religious people who believed abortion is murder. Instead of choosing the life and health of their teenager, her parents chose the spark of life she created with some loser kid, five years tragically later losing both. The gatekeeper’s burden of choice cannot be understated.
In my personal life, I have been blessed to experience about as many angles on this subject as a person could reasonably expect in 35 years of life. I have been born, seen babies come from the womb, given birth, donated ovum and seen the gift of the seeds of life passed to two beautiful women resulting in three more souls! I even got to meet one of these children, and her mother honors me with a picture of her and her miraculous baby brother every year! I adopted the child that my sister adamantly insisted belonged on this world, and was proud of her for making that choice, my daughter is a joy and a trial- preteens, often are. I’ve experienced abortion as well and can say without a shred of doubt that it was the right choice at that time. It also helped make me a more compassionate person in general. Suffering can have that effect. My son came from an unexpected, direction-changing pregnancy as well, different circumstances, different choice, still right, still hard.
Aborting my pregnancy was not free in any way, there were financial, emotional, spiritual, social costs. For me, having seen such darkness made me even hungrier for light, but I’ve always been fortunate to have a strong sense of self and an excellent support system. I didn’t go to church either and my family isn’t religious, so didn’t have to fear hell, damnation, or condemnation for my “sin,” which could have only magnified the turmoil in my 14-year-old world. The beating from my father and 18 months of never leaving home except to go to school was punishment enough, along with all of the abuse I heaped on myself, really Hell and Eternal Damnation would have been overkill anyway.
Seriously though, having that abortion was the hardest thing I ever did for a long time. Trying to keep a marriage together and raise two kids has given me a new appreciation for what “hard” really means.
Sometimes making the right choice for yourself can be difficult for other people to understand, as well as being just outright hard to do. It doesn’t always feel good to do the right thing. Sometimes it sucks, doesn’t make it any less right. Only I sleep in my skin. When I go to my afterlife, if I face Judgment, it will be alone.
I hope I’m not being overly wordy, this is a big topic, and adding spirituality, an incredibly complex one, to my mind. Simply saying, “Abortion is Wrong! Abortion is Murder!” doesn’t give appreciation to the difficulty or complexity of the choices involved. Abortion is TOTALLY UNDESIRABLE. Nobody wants it, and, as far as I can tell, the only people who take it lightly are men who, “don’t like the feel” of condoms, who feel entitled to unprotected sex if it enhances their pleasure, who consider children and birth control both to be a woman’s responsibility. Interestingly, the most fanatical opponents of both birth control and abortion also seem to be men with what I would consider to be odd views on what women ought have as Their responsibility. To a certain point, I even agree, with the exception that preventing unwanted pregnancy is the responsibility of every consenting adult who has sex and doesn’t feel ready for children, not the exclusive domain of females. Fellas, I don’t care that there’s no Pill for you yet, no excuse for slacking, you could get one if you really wanted it, look at Viagra. You better be prepared for an oops if you’re not also fixed.
Nobody should be forced to reproduce against their will. No matter how drunk and slutty, young and stupid, if the condom broke, or the baby has tay sachs disease, or down’s syndrome, whatever anyone else thinks about it. I’m sorry if you don’t like it. I’m sorry if it makes you feel terrible because you think I’m going to go to hell for killing what you consider a tiny baby. I’m sorry, but it’s not your choice to make because it isn’t your uterus. If I have a baby it won’t be your baby, and if I have an abortion it won’t be your abortion. Because it won’t be You and it won’t be your choice, because one day we will each of us die, then maybe, hopefully! all will be revealed.
If you really feel that passionately about saving human lives, sign up for the Peace Corps and go to the 3rd world, hand out food to homeless, starving war orphans in Darfur. Go to Congo and protect kids who walk miles barefoot from their homes to shelters every night so they won’t get kidnapped in militia raids. Go to Juarez where girls are being kidnapped and sold into sex slavery in the U.S. Help pay someone’s way through college. Teach someone illiterate to read. If you truly care about the sanctity of life, protect some life that is maybe less romantic than saving babies, but man, that is what we need a lot more of. In my opinion.
I have thought about this a lot!
December 13th, 2009 at 3:40 am
I can be rather passionate about this sort of thing, don’t mean to sound combative.
December 13th, 2009 at 7:17 am
Alison,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
As you said, you are very passionate on this topic & that is just fine.
Being passionate about anything is a good thing.
It sounds like your personal experience & connection has made you a wiser individual.
I realize that what you experienced took place many years ago while in your teens but would you say that you were & forgive me for this but stupid by allowing it to happen?
It, could be sex, protected or unprotected & getting pregnant.
What I’m trying to get at is the incredible number of women of all ages who are having sex for the wrong reason.
As a man I have always considered women to be far more inteligant than men. It does seem however for them to be just as unintelligent as men when it comes to sex.
I realize that for the most part, men are too stupid to think about the consequence of such actions(you may call it whatever you like)but shouldn’t women be the ones with the common sense?
After all as you said, they are the ones that are left to deal with the entire situation alone.
How would you fight this battle? What do you tell your teenage daughter?
We need to stop this madness.
December 13th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Prophesy,
I was ignorant, naive, taken advantage of and unprotected with access to few resources without my parent’s permission, or help. I was getting curious about sex- it was 1987- and asked my mother for birth control, which she refused, citing fear of my father’s anger. Six months later she was taking me to get an abortion after my ten-years-older “boyfriend” also failed to protect himself or me against pregnancy. My dad was super-pissed about that!
When you go the life route without a good, trusty guide, the lessons learned come at a higher cost, sometimes leave scars. I learned a LOT from that experience.
My daughter is only 11 years old, so for now, I tell her the same thing I tell my 10yo son, that she owns her body, it’s hers, nobody has a right to put their hands on her, that it’s okay for her to put hands on herself, in private, please. The nitty-gritty sex talk is coming soon to a living room near us, our days of innocence are coming to a close. Both of my children will have plenty of access to birth control, however in no way will they be encouraged to engage in sexual relationships before they are emotionally ready. Thankfully, neither are anywhere close… yet. Of course, I would prefer them to get a good education before they start with all of that, but I do live on the Earth that evolved over billions of years, I know they’ll have their own experiences as they grow up and that I can’t control everything they do. They need to be armed with accurate information, trusted advisers, and sound judgment.
I try to be as honest with my kids as is age-appropriate. So far I have calm, honest, kids who trust me and their father, understand and respect the workings of the human body, and are poised to tackle puberty with more grace and tools for self-protection than I could have dreamed of at their age.
I appreciate that you consider women more intelligent, but… really? I find that often times when men say that, in actuality they would like a refill of their coffee cup, please, thanks sweetie. I’m not bitter! But come on Prophesy, intelligence knows no gender better than the other. Any girl could tell you that.
The position that women are more virtuous, more honest, more “innately” intelligent, or whatever is chauvinist, even if you are assigning positive characteristics to the other gender. Women are no better or worse than men in any way as defined by their gender. Except for muscle mass, which evolution has given superiority to men for the most part.
Men are just as intelligent and moral as women are, and just as responsible for preventing any babies they don’t want to have. Not in the least because they’ll be expected to financially support them upon their arrival, whether they want them or not. If the madness is to cease, then men will need to do a little soul-searching, examine their values and expectations of women and sex. Males are up to the task, but it’s confusing and you get a lot of mixed messages. I understand, women get a lot of that too. We truly aren’t so different.
December 13th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Alison,
The last thing that I wanted was to offend you & I sincerely apologies if my responce came across as anything but frustration over what I still believe to be a waste intelligence on men by women.
Obviously no-one is more qualified than you to speak & comment on the subject of abortion as you have personally experienced it & servived to guide anyone who is willing to listen.
I believe that we have all been equipped with enough common sense to distinguish right from wrong, by the creator?
To what extent do you put blame some responsibility on our society that I believe dictates our nearly every act.
What to drive, where to live, what to smell like, how to have fun, when to marry, who to marry………
Your wisdom & intelligence is evident for anyone who reads your posts & has the fortune to speak with you.
So please enlighten us by sharing you views on how we may protect ourselves & our children against such acts as I much prefer the prevention method.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:36 am
Prophesy,
Your confidence is flattering, but I fear it is misplaced in me. I’m in no way offended, just philosophical with an acerbic personality.
In my opinion, honesty goes a long way toward the health of any situation. Lies and half-truths, however soothing at the time, really don’t help anyone. Except maybe the liar, and even then only in the moment.
At what point do you, the free-will possessing individual, choose for yourself? Who can “make” another person do anything? The power of societal “norms” is strong, yes, but saps neither will nor ambition. Martyrs, addicts, prison recidivists, pregnant teens, escapees from the Iron Curtain, fundamentalist religious followers, all great examples that people WILL do what they want to, guided by their own moral compass. It’s all about strengthening and directing that compass, nurturing the critical instinct, honing courage, self-determination.
I teach my kids that they can’t always get what they want, disappointment is as much a part of life as satisfaction. I teach them that royalty types who can’t do for themselves are nothing to aspire to, nor is diva behavior cute or amusing, that they are more than capable of managing the tasks life sets before them, that they have lots and lots of support, even beyond mom and dad, for when times get tough.
We have assembled a sizable, confidential support network for them to consult, made up of people we have personally vetted and consulted over years.
They know too that times do get tough, you have to take happiness where you find it, not get pissed that it isn’t where you think it should be, that happiness doesn’t just happen under certain circumstances, it takes work and they can and should make themselves happy, don’t depend on someone else to make you happy. Nothing is permanent. They can’t control other people’s actions, feelings, only their own.
It remains to be seen, whether my parenting helps make healthy, productive adults. The teen years loom in the distance full of the specters of sex, drugs, booze, driving, overconfidence and youthful impulsiveness. I do work at parenting my kids and they see it, understand that it’s work, best saved for a time of readiness, so they can give their kids all the stuff they wish I could give to them. Including infinite patience.
We talk like they are intelligent, uneducated people, not like I know everything and they are adorable morons.
I’m living and learning like everyone else, including the kids. Ultimately they will be responsible for the choices they make and I won’t be able to pick for them anymore, they know. All I’ll be able to do is tell them what I think and why, and hopefully I will have helped them to develop strong, honorable character and sound judgment enough that I’ll be able to trust them as much as I hope for them to trust me, which is without a flicker of doubt.
*sigh* Again with the wordy! Please forgive me.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Alison,
You really are wise beyond your years. You sound more like a 70 year old. You’re an old soul.
You remind me of one of my closest friends. Ironically her name too was Alison. Although a good 10 years younger, she taught me more than anyone in my entire life.
Thank you for your soothing & calming words.
I am way too impatient & passionate of an individual. Some people have attributed it to my Zodiac sign, Aquarius. I still don’t know what to think of that whole thing.
At nearly 41, I realize that I have so much to learn. In fact a few years ago I made a point to learn something from every person that I meet.
I do however question your point on the will-power. I see people all around me & how willingly they have chosen to follow & do what they are told.
They way they dress, the way they do their hair, makeups, scents………
I recognize that we all need to belong or fit-in & that may even be more true or vital for the minorities to include introverts such as myself.
I have however nearly given-up trying to convince folks to be themselves, question the “authority” & do what they believe is the right action.
It is said that the Aquarians live in the future. I used to see that as a positive but what they neglect to tell you is how far into the future.
As a example, I tried to get the mutual fund companies, all three levels of the government & individuals to invest in “Green” & sustainable technologies & do their own part.
15 years later, we have only began talking about it.
When I look back in history, at the great inventors & thinkers and I see the difficult time that they had or were killed for their forward thinking & views, I don’t know if I’m equipped to fight this battle.
Thankfully there is an Alison or two out there to teach & set the misguided straight & give hope to the hopeless.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here Alison & please, please don’t stop your “wordy” posts.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:22 am
Who in their right mind could possibly think with any amount of reasonability that abortion, under any circumstances is NOT murder? Um, a baby is a baby. I don’t care if you call it a fetus or embryo, it’s still a baby. COME ON!!
That’s my opinion.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:27 am
Where in any religious book does it say that it is ok to have an abortion?
Um…how about this…if you don’t want a baby, don’t have sex. If you’re raped, accept the situation God put you into, and deal with it. Maybe you could look at it as something good from something rotten? Just a thought!
February 17th, 2010 at 7:04 am
To ABC,
Good for you.
I wish many such situations for you to have to accept.
March 15th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Oh that’s fine. If you know anything at all about the bible, than you would know what I am talking about when I say that God is making me into a ‘Job’. I don’t think that situations of any kind would change my mind on the matter. Life is precious. Who are we to decide who lives and who doesn’t make the cut? Pardon the pun.
Please watch the following video. It’s about an abortion survivor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ
Part one above, two below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8B1nKGIAeg&feature=related
Too bad more people considering abortion didn’t think like this woman!! Bless the Lord Jesus that she thought of new life first!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdfOoEg0xws&feature=related
March 30th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
TO say abortion is wrong we first have to discuss why raising a life form when the parent is not ready is wrong, either financially, physically or mentally. Bring a life in this world without the adequate resources is just as wrong and sinful than it is to kill the baby because you’re putting that baby(child)through a lot of suffering through the years. I could go on and on about this , just ask!
Here are the five recommendations Parents need before having a baby.
1. physically mature (able to have a baby)
2. physically ready (ready to work 12 hour days to supply food for the baby, ready to wake up in the middle of the night, ready to take child to school.)
3. Mentally mature ( mature enough to stay home with the baby instead of doing what you want to do)
4. mentally ready (ready to teach your child what you know so the child doesn’t do the same mistake you’ve done)
5. Financially ready (do you have the resources for an upbringing, chickens don’t hatch eggs in winter, seeds not all sprout.)
March 31st, 2010 at 8:27 am
Bravo.
I totally agree. It’s so much easier to obtain a driver’s licence than it is having kids.
I’m not really one for government intervention but this is one case that we would need intervention in a effort to protect those innocent children and the society as a whole.
March 31st, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Finances vs abortion? I still say, “Don’t have sex”.
On the chance you could meet that child you aborted in another life, what would your explanation look like? “I killed you cause I couldn’t afford you? I killed you cause I didn’t want you? Or I killed you cause you were going to be a special needs child?”
Yeah, OK…
April 1st, 2010 at 6:29 am
I only wish that it was as easy as that(not having sex.)
Unfortunately however the only thing easy are the girls these days.
Have you already seen the micro-mini shorts out there?
It’s really sad.
April 2nd, 2010 at 12:14 pm
ABC, your right. to fix a problem we have to look where the problem started at, which is having sex.
Having no sex is the answer, but when people are brought up in a society where sexual attraction is everywhere (which is not the problem) but when theistic religion does not help to teach us to dismiss our instincts or teach us why that urge of instinct is there in the first place. From that we are not able to not have sex.
1. We have got to teach the mental purpose of why we have these feelings and urges.
2. Then we have got to teach the physical purpose of why we have this feeling and urge.
Right now in school and in America the second one is the only one we are teaching, and we are barely teaching that as it is.
I know I’ve said this before on here, when theistic religions say that when a baby dies it goes to heaven. why would that baby go to heaven with out being able to past the test and obstacles of this physical world?
IF it is true that when abortions happened the babies go to heaven (and the main purpose of life is to reach heaven) then why don’t we all just start killing souls when they are infants? which would lead that soul to heaven.
That notion comes from selfish people saying that when they get to heaven they WANT thier baby there but actually that baby’s soul is not there’s in the first place and if I was a parent and my baby died I would want my baby’s soul to be reborn into this physical world so it can be tested. So that’s where baby’s souls go when they either die or are aborted.
April 6th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Teacher4U:
I found some info online to help put what I believe into words.
Do babies go to heaven when they die? The ultimate answer to this question is found in the answer to another question: “Will not the God of all the earth do right?” (compare Genesis 18:25). Concerning the infant who dies—God will do the right thing. The all-wise, loving God will do what is right, in light of God’s holy and righteous character.
A person is condemned for rejecting Jesus Christ and for refusing to believe in Him: “He that believeth on Him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the Name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18). An infant is not capable of rejecting Jesus Christ. An infant is incapable of committing the sin mentioned in John 16:9.
Those who go to hell in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 are those who have deliberately disobeyed the gospel by refusing to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Infants have not willfully disobeyed the gospel
Revelation 20:11-15 indicates that all of the unsaved are resurrected to appear before the Great White Throne, and twice it is stressed that each will be judged according to their works. It is doubtful that young infants are included in this evaluation. What evil works has a 6 month old baby committed?
Consider the compassionate heart of God for those who are lost: “Who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4–this is God’s desire). “Not willing that any should perish” (2 Pet. 3:9). “Even so it is not the will of your Father, who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matt. 18:14). “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked” (Ezekiel 33:11). While these verses do not refer specifically to infants, they do teach us that the loving and merciful heart of our God desires the salvation of all men.
I don’t like to copy and paste too much, but I found this to be very close to any description that I could give.
It’s the same for infants as it would be for a mentally handicapped individual of say…40 years old. If they are not capable of deciding whether or not they believe in Christ, why would He send them to perish?
April 7th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Jesus was no different than you or me, we are all sons and dughters of God (father) and our mother is earth (physical world).
Your kinda correct on the bottom paragraph. a baby or a handicapp person can still reach heaven if they are able to past the test and obstycles it takes to go to heaven. But as a baby, they do not get that many chances to prove themselves. but your absolutly right when you said (Who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4–this is God’s desire). “Not willing that any should perish” (2 Pet. 3:9). “Even so it is not the will of your Father, who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matt. 18:14). “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked”)
The wicked and unknowing are here to test us, and when the wicked and unknowing die they will be reincarnated and then they will be in the same position as us to be tested.
You seem smart, so you do not need a book which is not alive to tell you this stuff. All you need is yourself, which is ALIVE to decide whats MERL without having bias, hate, or pride influence your decision.
April 8th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Your opinion about reincarnation is not even close to anything I believe in my Christian lifestyle. There is only one death and one life after that: Eternity. These are my beliefs, and they come from a book that I DO need, and I need it very much in fact. And to me, it IS alive. Not physically, but it’s God’s word, and His word is alive because it also resides in His son Jesus, who is alive.
If a person loves ANYTHING at all, then they must also hate the very things that are opposite of that which they love. Hate is a relevant part of life…Pride is a very evil, corrupt weapon. It does no-one any good.
Please, I am not very smart. I do not consider myself smart in any way. I make stupid decisions all the time…when I yell at my son, am rude to my husband, spend too much money on something I don’t even like in the end. I would be happy having God’s WISDOM in my life…but only if it’s used to build others up, and guide them with love.
To me, reincarnation just doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s something I’ve heard of since I was young too; so it’s not new to me, but it just sounds so silly, and I don’t understand how one could know it existed…that it was truth…unless you still carry memories of your last life/form…There is NO proof of that just like there is none of God. (Meaning the kind of tangible proof…like photo’s, video, something solid. Sorry, this is all I could think of-What other kind of proof WOULD there be for God’s existence…and not that there is an earth and everything on it…that proves earth exists, not God)
I apologize if that sounds rambly or poorly written…I’m up late tonight.
April 9th, 2010 at 6:50 am
ABC;
Have you ever heard anyone being referred to as an old soul?
My definition of old souls are individuals who others gravitate towards. They are wise(sometimes referred to as “wise beyond their years”, they are calm, they are happy & content. They are kind & have this invisible glow.
Most of us gain some wisdom as we age & experience life but there is no age restriction on an old soul as they can come in all ages.
I really hope that you know at least one such individual.
So how does one get to be an old soul?
Well I honestly don’t see how it could be attributed to anything else other than having been here & done that, so-to-speak, enough times to have gained such a title, much like you or I would look back at a certain past experience and remember the outcome when we over-reacted, panicked, took too aggressive of an approach………………………….
and learned to take a different, more calm approach,
So that’s my evidence & humble opinion.
April 11th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Last summer I was talkin to a park leader guy who was also a christain preacher. And he talked about how he was in his winter stage of life. He explain that in the spring we are born, in the summer we are teenagers, in the fall we are middle age with our hair falling out that resembles leaves falling and then winter where everything dies. The preacher had a good point but he forgot somthing. That winter doesnt stop there it then turns back in to spring then summer then fall then winter again. And thats how reincarnation works. If you do not pass the test and obstycles of life you are given another shoot. you become an old soul when you have reincarnated and your almost have pass their test and obstycles. If you dont prove yourself in a life you are demotted during reincarnation maybe into another creatur besides a human, humans is the best vehicle to acquire. But when demoted into a lower life form you still have test and obstycles to pass. Almost all human souls on earth can not remember their past life due to external influences brought on after rebirth. Its exactly like how we adults can not remember our childhood when we were young because of the memories of our teenage and young adult years.
ABC: do you know how the bible was created??Also if you LOOK or SEARCH there are many cases out there where people ahve remembered their past lifes with evidence.
April 11th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
I’m sorry, I just can’t help but shake my head as I read your posts.
Annonymous: You wrote “My definition of old souls are individuals who others gravitate towards. They are wise(sometimes referred to as “wise beyond their years”, they are calm, they are happy & content. They are kind & have this invisible glow.”
To me, this explains someone who has faith in Christ. Nothing else.
Teacher4u: It’s easy to create a theory like that of the seasons; to take something harmless, and ADD to it. (ie. how winter then comes back to spring etc.)
That’s dangerous. It’s playing around with your eternity! We are NOT given another shot after we die and leave this earth. What I don’t understand is how so many people won’t accept that death is death, and it’s called that for a reason, and this is the one chance we get. If we don’t accept that Christ is who Christians say he is, and accept that he paid the price for our sins instead of us, then we lost our chance of any life AFTER death…and that would be eternity with God.
We all know that we die, but we all also have that fear of death at some point in our lives. We don’t want to die, we want to live forever…even those who are living with horrible diseases, fear death to some degree. This is part of God in us. He designed us to live forever, and forever we WILL live, but it’s up to US where that will be…with Him, or without Him.
So, being ‘demotted’ as you put it…who demotes us? How has reincarnation come to be? Who’s in control of that? And if you answer me “God is/does”, then where is it written about reincarnation? Surely something that important would be documented somewhere. Why do so few people believe in that?
Honestly, to me now, and even at any age, I would have told anyone trying to describe this to me that it is, IMO, simply an idea someone came up with to relax those who are convicted of sin, but who don’t want to change. It allows people to have an EXCUSE, and nothing else. Why should WE be held accountable eh? Just enjoy life, live it to the fullest, and worry about eternity on the other side kind of mentality.
April 12th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
Let me guess, you probably never have looked at any other religion besides Christianity.
Then you come on this wonderful website (shamwebala lol), and read theories and converse, but then you denounce a theory becuase it doesn’t line up with yours and mainly BC you can’t understand it.
It is most profoundly a failure on your understanding. It would be like not understanding a math question and then saying this math shit is bullshit it aint real.
You seem wanting to get closer to God, so why don’t you act like it and search for him. Because I guaranty the only searching you have done is Somebody handing you a bible.
Now let me enlighten you, because that’s all I want from you, to be enlighten, i do not want your money, your physical actions or your support.
When the Christean church says Jesus died for our sins, that puts you on the side of the Romans. There are two reason why Jesus died;
1. he went in to roman land and said it was Gods kingdom and the roman king (Cesar?) took it literally.
2. Jesus had followers and the roman king said we can kill your followers or their leader (Jesus), And their Leader Jesus said take me, knowing his message would live on through the people ( but wasn’t smart enough to write it down so it wouldn’t be corrupted), the people who knew jesus’s teachings personally and were not full of sin. Those people who Jesus sacrificed himself were righteous people and Jesus died for them but the church wants you to take it as we are all sinful therefore for you to get closer to Jesus which in their terms going to church and abiding by their own MERL’s laws.
April 13th, 2010 at 6:49 am
Teacher4U,
I really do believe that what you are saying is true.
I also know that you are well aware of why there is so much animosity towards the church, posted by some of the other scholars here and as such you are not particularly offended by their words.
I would like to thank you all again for keeping the dialogue so civilized. Religious fundamentalists could never achieve this.
April 14th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
To not be ‘on fire’ for something, like God, would make it very easy to be ‘laid back’. People who do not believe in the Lord always compare themselves to other humans, therefore lifting themselves up in high esteem, or lifting others up, as I see you all doing on here.
If you do not stand for something, you will fall for anything. Sounds like this is what you have done; sadly.
I do not compare myself to other humans. If I did, I could make myself look/feel very GOOD. I am not, however. I compare myself to God’s perfection, which makes me always see clearly that there is room for improvement, and it keeps me from thinking I’m ‘all that’. If you tried living your life according to God’s perfection, you wouldn’t be doing a very good job at being Christian either. But that’s what being a Christian means to me; not perfect, and willing to admit it and surrender to my creator.
The end will prove the truth; whether you want it to or not, whether you believe it or not, it WILL be known.
It’s hard to watch people fall, and bring others down with them. It’s harder still to listen to others trying to explain Jesus away. Impossible it is for someone who’s actually grateful for what He did for us to sit by and say nothing. A fool He would become.
So, as the Christian is becoming the fool in the eyes of the non-believer/s, he is also becoming that much closer to the Lord as he is mocked, just as Jesus was. Blessed is the one who is ridiculed for wearing the name ‘Christian’.
April 15th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Ignorance is not bliss, remember that ABC when dealing with reality.
April 18th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
A lot of people think that ignorance IS bliss. Why do you think it’s not?
April 19th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
people say ignorance is bliss when the person saying it wants the other person to ignore whats going on, as in politics bc when you know something you have to do something about it therefor not knowing it you don’t have to do anything about it.
But I see that you have ignored reality, so you can stick with your 2,000 year old religion that has been corrupted and misinterpreted since the day that it started.
April 23rd, 2010 at 4:19 pm
I have never ignored reality, unless I was literally trying to escape it. And believe me, there were many times when I tried.
I see that you have a misunderstanding about religion and belief in God. I DO NOT follow a religion. I have a personal relationship with Christ, and yes, he’s NOT tangible. And for good reason!
Please hear me loud and clear when I say this, “I do not like religion, follow religion, believe in religion, encourage religion, or anything else to do with religion.” Religion IS corrupt and the BIBLE is very often misinterpreted. Often because non-believers are trying to understand it with the wrong purpose, and without the Holy Spirit.
I understand what ‘ignorance is bliss’ means, but thank you for clarifying it. I however wouldn’t do well raising my 2 children if I was oblivious to reality, now would I? LOL
April 24th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
When you mean Christ, do you mean Jesus Christ or God? Because a lot of people have names for God, Allah, Bog, the guy upstairs or woman up stairs or both upstairs lol.
Because I’m not an idol worshiper, people who idol worship follow humans beings and all humans beings are being tested which can make or brake their weakness or impurities, therefore they are not reliable as we have seen in the past.
April 25th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
I mean both. I believe in the trinity, God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit.